Official Luthiers Forum!

This won't help folks running businesses, but for private e-mail, I have to recommend Yahoo. I've been using their free e-mail service for around 6 years now, and I NEVER get spam! I've been expecting it and I've been dreading (d***ding?) it, but I just don't get any. These people are good! Plus, anything that looks like spam, like a business reply or solicited promotion, doesn't get deleted or blocked--it just goes into a "bulk" folder, so nothing is ever lost.

Most ISPs should have good spam filtering; I know mine does. I get, maybe, 1 or 2 spam messages that slip through per month, and the other few hundred hit the SPAM box. The problem I've seen with Yahoo's bulk mail filtering is that it's a bit too strict; it often catches out stuff I don't want caught out...

[QUOTE=Mattia Valente] The problem I've seen with Yahoo's bulk mail filtering is that it's a bit too strict; it often catches out stuff I don't want caught out...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's done that to me, too. The beauty of their system, though, is that the mail doesn't get lost, and they alert you when something is in your bulk folder, too, so it's just a click away. I have to say it again, too--6 years and NO spam!

[QUOTE=PaddyD] hi there,

i just recieved an offer from a tonewood website which i have only visited once, and have certainly never given my email address to. i guess they must have got my address from my profile, [/QUOTE]

Paddy,

Sounds like the same guy Ive been getting emails from. Hes been offering me a local dealership selling his wood.

Cheers Martin

[QUOTE=burbank]
Michael, do you mean it logs the IP address? I'd be surprised if it were in fact the email address.

[/QUOTE]

Agreed. IP address can be logged but unless you manually enter your email adress they cant get that.

I don't mind "spam" from tonewood places... I don't even consider it
spam. I consider spam the crap I'm not even remotely interested in... like
a new home loan, or breast enlargements, or cheap prescription drugs...
Those I can live without.... the tonewood and guitar stuff just get me in
trouble cause I go and spend money I shouldn't!!

:)

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

i see your point john,


its just the fact that this brazilwoods guy is blatently using OLF info to try and further his own ""business"" without having the permission of anyone, or those in charge. and from what i have seen he flaunts all CITES regulations quite openly, plus the fact most of his stock seems to be "new" rio rosewood, which is mostly sapwood, and certainly not the real deal, but he is quite happy to push down peoples throats at ridiculously inflated prices. if people stopped buying the junk brazilian and let the trees grow maybe the old stuff would one day return.

rant mode off!!

paddy

rant on PaddyD, I am with you brother!

Mike

After following this post for a while...I feel compelled to respond even though I told myself I wouldn't let myself get dragged back into one of these cheap shot
threads. Funny how one email can spawn such a ridiculous response.

First I'll address the origin of this "Cry Baby" thread, then follow up on the responses. Paddy...yes I sent you ONE unsolicited email. You responded and asked that I not send you any more emails and continued on with expressing your opinion and uneducated deduction of my wood. I blew off your "Immature Cheap Shots" and responded "No Problem" You've been removed. Very simple.
Then like a spoiled child...you stomp off to the OLF and have to make an issue of it. You rant and rave: "its just the fact that this brazilwoods guy is blatently using OLF info to try and further his own ""business"" without having the permission of anyone, or those in charge.
Well it's nice to have you and Hesh policing the OLF now...maybe you need to know how this Forum was started. Why don't you PM Lance and ask how he let others know about it when he first started. From what I read on one thread he used the other forums to advertise the fact that he had started this one. Do you suppose he had permission from them ? But, that's O.K. right ?
So grow up. I'm sure I wasn't the first to send you an unsolicited email and I'm sure I won't be the last. If you don't know how to set your spam control....maybe you could use some of your "Millions" to hire someone to do it for you. But you can rest assured...you won't receive any more from me. Maybe you and others don't like it but, it's a common practice used by many companies. And if you don't like it..the only real way to avoid it is to take down your website, unplug your computer and get off the net. Face it..it's just part of the technological age. If you want to whine...have a piece of cheese with it and take it to another forum that addresses "Spam" topics.
And I hardly think you could consider "One" email as trying to push it down your throat.

As for the legalities of it...make up your mind. First you say it's "Rio Rosewood" not the real deal, then
you say I'm flaunting CITES. So, is "Rio Rosewood" not on CITES ?

Then you flaunt your 4000 lb load of wood with your Mahogany neck blanks and all your BRW on your
site. Do you have CITES documents on that ? Can you prove that it's legally harvested ? Mahogany is
also listed in CITES in Appendix II. The same Appendix as "Dalbergia Nigra". And since you are relatively
new in the business I am assuming you couldn't have bought your BRW before it was listed in 1992. Therefore you are required to have documents regardless of who you bought it from. If it is "by some chance" some of the little "Pre Ban" stock of left...your attitude is, I'd better hurry up and buy all I can before it's gone. Well the fact is, that is the exact attitude that creates the "Illegal" harvesting of Mahogany. So, you are really
just one more hypocrit in the long list. Grow up "Millionaire Playboy".
O.K...you've had your 15 minutes.

John Elshaw:
I'm with you Paddy! I get enough junk e-mail and spam, I don't need anymore. What really annoys me is
there is no option on the e-mails to opt out. I would be okay with it if I were given the choice to bail out if I
didn't want the spam. I think the spammer is getting the e-mail addresses from here, which bothers me
because they are abusing the OLF and circumventing the "no advertising" policy unless you are an OLF
sponsor. They are willing to exploit the OLF to fish for customers, but not support it publicly.

Do you know how to hit the "Reply" button on your email ? It's very simple to reply and ask to not be
sent any more emails. It would have taken less time than it took you to add to this thread. And again I would
have to say if it weren't for Lance exploiting and phishing on the other forums...you probably wouldn't be here today.

Mike Spencer:
You aren't on my email list..so you haven't received anything from me.

L. Presnall:
I'm a little suprised at your response. I've never received any request from you to be removed from our list. Much less two. If I had received an email requesting to remove you...I would have certainly done it. If I'm not mistaken you were one of the ones who voluntarily registered when we were a sponsor of the OLF. But, no problem...you have been removed.

Pat Foster:
???? Who are you. You sure never received an email from me.

Hesh 1956:
???? Another one. Who are you ? You've never received an email from me either. You aren't on my email list but you are on my other list.
Quote: "I have also had the feeling for a while now that when new vendors show up here AND other new
members chime in to tell us how great they are that this is a con of sorts.....".
Your father was a shrink right ? You should talk to him more. Most often when people have feelings like this...it is usually a reflection of their own
personality. Maybe you're the con. Your heart is so full of malice for other people Hesh. I think you need to
look at your own life before being so hasty in judging others.
Let's see...you're 50 this year, you have no children, you've never been married, you don't have the financial
conditions to acquire a real shop so you build guitars in your girlfriends bathroom....and seem proud of it. All
indications point to a real "Loser". My grandmother used to have a phrase I remember:
"He doesn't have a pot to p_ss in....much less a window to throw it out of". I think she was referring to guys like you.
And if you want to make accusations about other new members...why don't you call em out by name so they can
defend themselves...or are you a coward too ?

MikeV:
Yeah, Hesh makes me laugh too...every time he chimes in and I think about what a loser he is.

Anthony Z:
"Spamming and people accessing email addresses through the OLF is the reason I shudder anytime I see a member post a picture of their children".
Anthony...I think you're being a little overly paranoid. And if you thought it was me soliciting you for cheap drugs and viagra...you're way off base there.

Serge:
Didn't mean to make you uncomfortable. You've been removed from our list.

Mattia Valente:
"Most ISPs should have good spam filtering; I know mine does. I get, maybe, 1 or 2 spam messages that slip
through per month, and the other few hundred hit the SPAM box. The problem I've seen with Yahoo's bulk mail
filtering is that it's a bit too strict; it often catches out stuff I don't want caught out..."
Good points Mattia. You can also add an email sender to your "Block Sender" list in your Outlook Express. It's very simple...that's one reason I think this whole thread was blown way out of proportion and really rediculuous. Lance and Brock had better get a handle on it or this OLF will soon be known as the Old Ladies Forum because threads like this are becoming more like a gossip column of little old ladies.

Martin Turner:
"Sounds like the same guy Ive been getting emails from. Hes been offering me a local dealership selling his wood".
Sorry Martin...I don't know you either and you definitely have't received any emails from me....much less emails offering "Local Dealerships". We don't do "Dealerships". And I just checked..your email address isn't even listed on your profile. So, how could that be ????

MSpencer:
Sorry but you're another one I don't know. You've definitely never received an email from me either.


Most of the guys on this forum are respectful and courteous and seem to have been raised with the knowledge of "The Golden Rule". If they don't have something positive to contribute or something nice to say...they simply don't respond. So, I hope they don't take this reply as a reflection on them. But, for those of you who are constantly throwing stones at me...I think you'd better move out of your glass house first. Seems any time the word Brazilian comes up...the sh_t hits the fan. I'm a little tired of it and just decided it's time to put it out there. If you don't like it...
what can I say. Can't please all the people all the time. But, it seems anything goes for some on this forum. Just so you know where I'm coming from here's a little info maybe you weren't aware of...or maybe you were but, just chose to overlook it.

CITES:
Appendix II
MELIACEAE Mahoganies,
Swietenia humilis #1
Swietenia macrophylla #6
(Populations of the Neotropics) Central and South Americas
Swietenia mahagoni #5 (Cuban Mahogany)

Spanish cedar
Cedrela odorata #5
[Population of Colombia (Colombia)
Population of Peru (Peru)]

http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cub a/cuba.pdf
US Department of the Treasury Office of Foreign Assets Control Title 31 Part 515 of the US Code of Federal Regulations

[B}Importing Cuban-Origin Goods or Services
Goods or services of cuban origin may not be imported into the United States either directly or through third countries, such as Canada or Mexico. The ONLY exceptions
are publications, artwork, or other informational material.

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2485& KW=cuban#forumTop
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2485& KW=cuban#forumTop
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2557& KW=cuban#forumTop

Reply by Bruce Dickey for Tim McKnight on where to buy "Illegal" Cuban Mahogany.
Check AC Woods OLF Sponsor Ed Dicks, see banner above. Ever bought from Timbre Tone Woods in British Vancouver, that's the same fella, new company. Also, I saw some talk on the current forum from a knowledgeable UK fellow talking mahoganii. type in the word cuban, you'll either get mahogany or cigars.
Sounds a little hypocritical from a guy who was questioning me about the legality of my wood.

The OLF not only allows it but participates in the sale of it. Even if the supplier claims it's origin is someplace other than Cuba..it is still banned by CITES being described as:
Swietenia mahagoni #5 listed in Appendix II of CITES.

Any property in which Cuba has an interest which comes into the United States or into the possession or control of persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction is automatically blocked by operation of law.

Off my Box !Brazilwood38838.1449537037

I think we have to be careful when taking the high ground over CITES, I've seen plenty of stuff over here that is of very questionable origin, can you honestly say that everything listed on CITES in your wood store has proof of origin ? I Know for a fact I can't.
One could argue that what this supplier does is in fact far more honest than a lot, as he makes no pretence and at least he knows the source of his wood.

At the end of the day if there comes a time when exports of Brazilian or any other wood open back up, I would rather see it processed Locally to where it is grown, so the money goes back into the source economy, and helps to create an enviroment where the trees are seen as a valuable economic resource. I was looking at a project yesterday, which they are trying to get going with African Blackwood, where the local people selectively harvest and process the wood to ensure sustainability of supply, and in areas of Africa they have just revoked the licenses of some large western and eastern logging companies who are tearing up large sways of trees.

** Edit **

I composed and posted my post before Jeff had posted. It took me a while as I was trying to make some points without any one feeling I was pointing my finger, which I am not.

Jeff

Whilst I agree with some of the points you are making (The ones relating to CITIES), and understand that things have aimed directly at you. I think it would be better if things didn't get personal as there are some important points to share which will only get muddy if individuals feel like they are being attacked. You have made some pretty vicious statements in the directly at people, how are they to respond ? They can only come out fighting when pinned in the corner like that.

I Gotta say that I know you and Hesh had a discussion before, but your facts are wrong the very thing you are pulling other people up on, and quite frankly your attack on Hesh is vicious and nasty, and I think you should remove that and apologies.


RussellR38838.1754050926

I won't comment on the bulk of Jeff's message, other than to say that while it makes a few good points, the tone's possibly counter-productive...

[quote]Mahogany is
also listed in CITES in Appendix II. The same Appendix as "Dalbergia Nigra".[/quote]

...this is incorrect, though; Dalbergia Nigra is in CITES Appendix I, not II. And I hadn't realized Mahogany had moved from CITES III to CITES II, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. I'm keeping all the receipts I get when I buy wood, but the stuff that's in the country now, with my local suppliers (who quit importing it a few years ago), certainly doesn't have CITES documentation.

whilst i respect mr binions right to a voice and an opinion, i have no desire to comment on his views.

i would like to say that i have only ever bought dalbergia nigra from 2 sources, both are CITES registered, which costs them money, and both are more than happy to provide paperwork/passports for every piece i have ever bought from them.

maybe it is time to close this thread before it becomes a nother cake fight?

Yup, its time, its also starting to become an icky pattern.

I just want to mention two things before I unitize the (lock post) button

I am curious about these two statements

"...maybe you need to know how this Forum was started. Why don't you PM Lance and ask how he let others know about it when he first started. From what I read on one thread he used the other forums to advertise the fact that he had started this one."

AND

"And again I would
have to say if it weren't for Lance exploiting and phishing on the other forums... you probably wouldn't be here today."

I cannot for the life if me remember stepping into someone else's sandbox and blantly advertising for the OLF.
If I have, I want to know WHERE and WHAT I said. This is the third time Jeff has mentioned this, so I am very interested in knowing where this nugget is posted on the net.
I do know that we have spent a considerable amount of time, money, effort, and a lot of resistance to conforming to the more highly regulated forums to make the OLF what it is. I feel we have developed a culture here, not so much a mechanical learning tool, but a community culture. That to me is what differentiates us. Lets try not loose site of it.


Dang I hate Mondays that start this way.......

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Jeff,


After some consideration I must tell you that you have stepped over the line -- this time to the point where I believe that action needs to be taken. As you know I have a very lazie faire approach to running this board, we don’t impose rules on what you say with only a few minor exceptions (politics, religion, and the use of bad language). But we also expect that the culture of the community and common decency will prevent people from outrageous behavior.


Until your name got brought up in this thread I had no idea that they were speaking about you. And even then the main complaint seemed to be about your use of unsolicited email as a marketing tactic. To launch into a diatribe berating the people who had objections to being spammed is off base. I am sure many of these people were speaking of spam in general, not pointing anything at you specifically. This was unnecessary. If you want to debate the business of selling wood, certainly that is fine. I have no problem with you presenting your opinion regarding CITES and the business of selling wood. Or for that matter, even debating the use of unsolicited email as a way to market your products. The forum is for public discussion of just these kinds of topics.


However….


Within your post are two items which are inexcusable:


1)       Your vicious attack on Hesh. This was so far over the line that I am speechless. Hesh is a valuable member of this community, he is one of us, a friend, and you will NOT treat him or anyone else on our board like this.


2)       Your fabrication of my marketing approaches to somehow justify your own. Not only does this discredit me, my reputation and the reputation of this forum, but its purpose is to draft in the good will that is generated by my support of the OLF. I have an enormous amount of time, sweat and personal capital invested in the OLF and I am not going to let you or anyone else discredit it or me. For the record, I have never poached on another sponsor’s board, never spammed anyone by harvesting addresses, and never conducted any campaign to “trick” people into giving me their email address so I could invite them to the OLF. The only marketing I did in public early on was with the explicit permission of the communities that I promoted the OLF in. For you to say otherwise is an insult.

Jeff, while I hate to do this…. (and I swore I never would) I believe that your actions leave me no alternative. You are not welcome in our community anymore. I can tolerate a lot, but these two offenses (especially your attack on Hesh) are such a gross violation of decency and the spirit of our community that I see no other alternative.
Any further participating will result in deleting your account and blocking your IP.

Good bye and good luck.

Lance.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com